Thought You Might Like It, Too
Hey, My Darling Siestas!
I am at the Houston airport about to board my flight toward Stockton. So excited to see you California girls! A day or two ago Melissa sent me an answer to an email question she’d received to see if I’d approve it. Not only did I approve it, I asked her if she’d let me post it because a number of you might have had similar questions about Bible translations. This particular question pertains to the Message translation but we get similar questions about all sorts of translations. This is the kind of thing she and I did with our Lit class. It was so much fun. Man oh man, I love having my two daughters on this blog team so much. One thing you can count on around here is all sorts of different type posts! So let’s move from Amanda, Annabeth, and me at the Tea Room (where we did INDEED have some deep spiritual conversation amid our coconut cake – make no mistake, AJ is the deepest thinker in our family) to Melissa, our resident Bible technician. We all love serving you so much!
Off to California! Pray us a ton of Jesus!
The question in a nutshell:
I am having a very hard time putting my mind around using the Message as text for this first lesson…When I look up the Message in the Bible Gateway, it doesn't even resemble NIV, let alone some of the other translations. I am not a KJV gal, but this is a stretch. Please help me understand. Sincerely with a searching heart.
OK, here's Melissa's response to the question (which has been tweaked some for purposes of posting it on a public forum):
Dear __________________,
You ask a very good question. What I appreciate most about people who are concerned with particular Bible translations is that they display a respect for the integrity of the Word of God. They don’t want people messing with it or putting their dirty little hands on it. And I totally get that.
We believe wholeheartedly in using many translations at Living Proof. To be fair, the Message is a true translation and not a paraphrase which people often assume. Eugene Peterson translates straight from the Greek and the Hebrew while a true paraphrase usually re-words or “paraphrases” an existing English translation and not the original languages. Peterson's approach, however, is to elevate contemporary meaning and significance over the original meaning and traditional biblical idiom(s). As Fee and Stuart explain, “Peterson’s intent was to recapture the tone, to bring out the subtleties and nuances of the Hebrew and Greek languages while keeping a sense of the firsthand experience for contemporary readers. Peterson often asked himself, “If Paul were the Pastor of my church, how would he say this? or “If Jesus were here teaching, what would it sound like?” (see Fee and Strauss, "How to Choose a Translation for All Its Worth", 33). Even though Peterson is a solid scholar and a brilliant artist with language, I would not recommend using The Message as a primary text but as a supplementary text. And my guess is that Eugene Peterson himself would never have intended for The Message to replace major English translations like the NASB, ESV, or NIV that have all been birthed by major oversight and translation committees. When used in a supplementary manner The Message really is an absolutely beautiful translation. I personally use the NASB as my primary text along with consulting the Greek and the Hebrew but I don’t consider my reading or study complete without comparing a plethora of English translations (including NASB, ESV, NRSV, NIV, NLT, KJV, and many others). I would keep in mind that every English text of the Bible is a translation except the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. To take it one step further, every translation includes some interpretation. There is just no getting away from that. And even those who have had the opportunity to study Greek and Hebrew are still studying human languages. God spoke and continues to speak through human beings, a fact that is downright humbling and astounding in and of itself.
I totally hear your heart and understand your concern which is that you would like to use the closest "literal" rendering of God's Word that is available to us and if that is the case I would use an NASB or an ESV. An NIV is still a mediating translation but keep in mind there are great things to be said about mediating translations. Many would argue that there are serious advantages to a good mediating translation which is why so many Pastors and lay-people still use the NIV. There are three major types of translations and each have different goals: Formal Equivalence, Mediating, and Functional Equivalence. All three of these types have pros and cons which are worth contemplating and the best thing to do, in my opinion, is compare all of them and then study up on what the editors and translators were trying to do in the first place. It is always a good idea to read the Editor’s notes in the front of a particular Bible. The introduction will usually explain the method behind the translation theory and also the person or committee that was involved in the translation process. This is, of course, a very brief response and much more could be said on the matter. If you continue to have questions concerning translations I would do some intentional reading into translation theory. A very user-friendly and readable book on this very issue is called "How to Choose a Translation for All Its Worth" by Gordon Fee and Mark L. Strauss. I highly recommend it. I hope this helps you! Blessings to you.
Cordially,
Melissa Fitzpatrick

129 Comments:
My friend Abby and I actually discussed this last night as we did our first SSBS meeting. We both agreed that we thoroughly enjoy The Message, the contemporary tone, the lively language, the personal touch that it adds to Scripture. But we've both found that on its own, it is not nearly satisfying enough. Like Melissa said, used as a supplement to another translation {for me- NIV, for Abby- NSV} it is delightful and often helpful in unpacking difficult passages. For me, personally, while I enjoy The Message, I actually find that it enhances my appreciation for my good ol' NIV.
I guess I'm just old school after all :)
Thank you for that post. I normally study from the NIV, NASB, New Living and the Message. However, I did not realize how to really define the purpose behind the type of translation. I love how we can share our questions and not feel dumb or stupid but know that we are all hear to love, support and teach. Again, thanks Melissa I was very impressed by your answer.
Praying hard for Stockton that the Lord's spirit would fall in a mighty way.
two thoughts to add to "the Message" question.
I use the Message translation when I am struggling to grasp an idea. I am not a biblical scholar and sometimes it's difficult to get what the writer intends.
One reason that I love the Message is that when my kids were younger, they got the biggest kick out of some of the phrasing and would take it to school to show their friends. I do believe that if the Message can continue to spark an interest (and love) of the Word in teens, it's probably not a bad thing.
Enjoy Stockton, Beth! and thanks for the thoughts Melissa!
blessings,
karen
AWESOME explanation Melissa and Beth! Will send others here who have had the same question.
Have a great weekend Siestas!
Melissa,
You are amazing and I would say your education is going to give all of us so much more than we bargined for on this blog! Thanks for sharing this question with us, it answered a few of my own.
Blessings, Bobbie
Beth,
Been praying and will continue to pray! Thanks for letting us into your life! Love you to pieces!
WOW! I have to agree with the siesta who sent the original question... our group had this very discussion. (Minus all the theological interpretative understanding and wisdomish stuff that Melissa offered ) :-)
Thank you for clearly explaining the differences between translations. Our group really appreciates you Melissa. (And Beth for posting it!!)
WOW! I'm so glad you shared this with all of us. I've always had questions about the different translations and which ones are the closet to the original. Thanks you so much for sharing this. I plan on passing this on to quite a few people. I LOVE GETTING THIS KIND OF INFO!!!
I love to compare versions to try to gain understanding of scriptures, or to make sure I grasp the context. Sometimes, a particular version will just really resonate with me. I love Matt 6:34 from The Message. It has just stuck and I remind myself of it very often.
Give your entire attention to what God is doing right now, and don't get worked up about what may or may not happen tomorrow. God will help you deal with whatever hard things come up when the time comes. (Matthew 6:34, The Message)
But I love the way the NLT says Romans 12:9. It's just so plain and simple.
Don’t just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good.
So, I guess I shop around for the best version for whatever situation I'm in or what I need to use the verse for.
We met for our first session last night, and we spent some time discussing this very issue. We ended up looking at Psalm 19 in the NIV, NKJ, and KJV versions as well as The Message translation provided. Our conclusion was that the Message version is much "softer". For example, where the NIV or KJV describes God's laws and commands, the Message uses words like 'signposts', which doesn't seem to command the same obedience and power.
Blessings,
Adrienne
THANK YOU!! We had some discomfort over the Message text and this helps tremendously.
From tea rooms to Bible translations - just another reason to LOVE this blog!
Praying for the California girls & the LPM Team.
Thanks Melissa. I was drawn to serious Bible study by Precept, so use the NASB Inductive Study Bible. Just started using a new on when the cover fell off of my old one, right before starting to do the Daniel study. So I thought it was great that my new Bible opens right to Daniel, as your Mom mentioned that her new Bible did.
Anyway I just love comparing translations and have a pile of Bibles open across my dining room table, along with Zodihates. Since I do daycare,my bonus study time is during naptime. But the books must be put away to feed the children their snack.
And when I add another Bible to my stack, I try to get another element of background info. So I have the Archaeological NIV..and the ESV is so awesome.
Thanks for the info on the question concerning the Trinity. It is great to have a place where we can strive to be smarter.
Terri
Hebrews 10:16 (New International Version)
16"This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds."[a]
Same verse in the Message:
This new plan I'm making with Israel
isn't going to be written on paper,
isn't going to be chiseled in stone;
This time "I'm writing out the plan in them,
carving it on the lining of their hearts."
He concludes,
I'll forever wipe the slate clean of their sins.
Once sins are taken care of for good, there's no longer any need to offer sacrifices for them.
I picked this because I love to study from all translations - simply because the LORD leads me in showing me which one is igniting the meaning in my soul. I have to say very often it is The Message. Sometimes it is the KJV -
"Speak; for thy servant heareth." 1 Samuel 3:10 or Joshua 5:14 (King James Version)
14And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
But God becomes alive through different translations at different times.
I work in our church bookstore and there is the most beautiful Bible that is a parallel between NIV/The message. I have not been able to buy it (and i do already own a NIV, NKJ, and NLT. But I loveing able to compare between the two.
One of my fav's from the message is:
When two of you get together on anything at all on earth and make a prayer of it, my Father in heaven goes into action. And when two or three of you are together because of me, you can be sure that I'll be there."
He WILL be there!
Matthew 18:20 The Message
I'm a Bible translation girl of any kind, as long as it is Biblical...hope that makes sense. I started out with a NLT Bible and then "moved up" with other translations. I still use all, KJV, NKJV, NASV, NIV, ESV and The Message. I look for versus in different bibles. I'm a KJV and a The Message girl. Sometimes, I need to see certain translations to help me at a particular point, whatever I need to be close to God. I'm not laid-back, so to speak. I take the Bible very seriously, make no mistake. I LOVE words like nigh, meaning near. "Draw nigh to me." Love that. I also love the forward, Biblical teaching in The Message.
Thank you for sharing. Btw, my former pastor's wife, who happens to be one of my best friends helped me understand The Message. I asked her "What do you think about The Message?" Her answer, being the stickler that she is, "At first, I hated it, now I absolutely love it!" Enough for me to try it out and I love it too.
Very Sincerely,
B (that's what all my close girlfriends call me).
Thank you for that!
I mostly use NKJV and NIV and NASB and (Bible gateway)...but I am grateful for your mention about ESV. I also am grateful for your information on the much loved Message.
Muchas Gracias,
Abby
Thanks so much for this post! I've been wondering these types of questions for a while now - NLT vs ESV vs NIV - myself. :)
Melissa,
Actually, I was thinking about the same thing. I have heard that the Message should not be considered a translation, but just a paraphrase and therefore be read with caution. I also found what you wrote about the other translations very interesting as well. I have stuck with the NIV as far as regular reading goes because I heard that's what your mom primarily uses and I'm not too knowledgeable in these areas. I've recently been curious about using other translations as far as general reading goes. So, since you said you primarily use the NASB I think I might check it out too. I love your research skills Melissa, they are very helpful!
BTW, do you know what I actually think about a lot that I so wish you would do!? I wish you would teach us how to go through a book of the Bible and how to break it down and study it. It would even be fun if you set it up like a class or something. I feel like I miss so much by just reading a book of the Bible through like a normal book, but I feel overwhelmed by the prospect of breaking it down and studying it. I guess I'm not really sure how to go about doing it. Do you know I have never read the whole Bible through, much less a book of the Bible. Wow. I realize how sad that truly is as I write it.
Just a thought;)
Thanks! KT
Great answer Melissa! I agree with using several translations and comparing them. I really appreciate the Message in that it says things differently and makes me think and sometimes even check with others translations to see "does is it really say that"! I think it has helped me see outside the box I can tend to try and put God in, such a ridiculous thing to do but I think many of us try to make God fit where we are more comfortable with Him.
Lynn in AB
thank you for this post! I really appreciated it and have the same concerns myself. I study from a NKJV Bible. I am wondering how it is different from an NASB Bible? I'm not sure where I got this impression, but I was under the impression that the NKJV and NASB Bibles are very similar in translation style.
wonderful! Thank you Melissa for such a thorough response.
I think I speak for lots of readers when i says this: can I tell you please just how much it BLESSES me that you ladies actually read the comments and respond? I have a tiny inkling of how busy you are (my own mother was in ministry) and it just blows my mind how diligent you ladies are about respecting your readers.
thank you and God bless you.
Deirdre
I had the hardest time getting anything other than a KJV for so long - even though our church used the NIV. When I finally broke down and got the NIV, I couldn't put it down. My eyes were opened in such a way that I could understand and appreciate so much. Had a very hard time with the Message at first. Have since come to appreciate that it says it like it is- sometimes with a bit of sarcasm it seems which can be good. We use it often in our small group bible study to help us get our minds around something. We now own several translations and home that we refer to regularly. Still love the NIV for everyday though.
Kim . . . who is
Grafted by Grace in any translation
Thank you for taking this one on!
Thank you Beth and Melissa for insight on the translations issue. Melissa's reponse was very helpful to me and hopefully to others. I had always heard that The Message was a translation, so what you stated is interesting. Sounds like Eugene Peterson is trying to let us see when the scripture take a more poetic style of writing. I strongly agree (it is what I do) that The Message should only be used as a secondary translation. I use it most when I am having trouble getting meaning of a verse and The Message helps shead some light on my understanding. I also use NIV, KJV and look at the Greek and Hebrew. I loved that Beth got us into looking at other versions in her Psalms of Ascent Bible Study, our small group just finished this study the end of May.
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Katie in ND,
There are some pretty major differences between the NKJV and the NASB especially in relation to its textual base. I love the NKJV and read it often (I especially love the Psalms in the NKJV) but if you use it as your primary text make sure you pay attention to the footnotes as it is informative, etc. If you want a literal rendering that is based on a better manuscript tradition, use the NASB over the NKJV... but don't throw the baby out with the bath water!
Love to you...
Melissa
Oh Melissa, I want to be like you when I grow up!!! How I wish I had your eductation and your ability to express what you know.
That said, I worked in a Christian bookstore for a little while, and I wish I had pictures of the bewildered eyes of new believers buying their first Bibles. There are a lot of choices but a lot of wonderful opportunities to connect with God in different ways. He can't be contained in a book anyway!
I love you all am so grateful for how each of you pass along what you've been blessed with - wisdom, humor, knowledge, joy, and a few make-up tips here and there. It's a great reminder that we've been blessed to be a blessing.
Melissa,
You are a smart one and thanks for the great explanation. I plum wore out my NIV and have been using my new ESV which I ABSOLUTELY love! It helps me so much in my understanding.
I read Peterson's The Message every now and then but mostly read and study from the NIV and ESV.
God's Word is precious and to think He breathed His very breath on every jot and tittle!
Soak it up!
Melissa,
Girl! You really are quite awesome!
You know, your mom makes me want to dig deeper in the Bible. You, my sweet sister, make me want to dig deeper into Biblical history. I, too, am a student at heart. My mom still says that I'm a professional student--and I'm 34 years old. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for encouraging me to learn more and to be more intentional about studying the Bible. You go girl!
I majored in history and political science in college and was particularly intrigued by the Reformation. Do you by chance have a book recommendation on this subject?
Prayers and blessings,
Rebecca
tiggerdaisy,
buy 'the european reformations' by carter lindberg. it is a big book but i found it easy to read and after reading it felt like i could completely spit back out everything i had read. not sure why but it must just be the way he writes.
melissa
So good!! Thank you Melissa!!
Praying for the California trip! I was going to go but I can't miss my daughters bday party. ;)
I personally love the NRSV because of the way it handles gender references, but NLT is my very favorite. I have also been told that NRSV and NLT, like The Message, more closely follow the original languages. I've always worried a little about how those translations were "monkeyed around with" by the early kings, and I've also heard the NIV referred to as the "Nearly Inspired Version."
I have a Message/NIV parallel Bible that I bought myself for Valentines day this year...w/blessing from my man, of course! It's even pink!!
I LOVE this Bible. I miss my old NIV because it was like a scrapbook the thing is soooo well worn and dated w/my notes. It was hard to move on to a new one. BUT it was falling apart. The gospels were falling out in chunks! Anyway, for what it's worth, The Message rocks!
Hey Spiritual Mom Beth! Praying for you and the crew today!!!! A ton of Jesus, right on ya!:) I am glad to hear this from Melissa. I wasn't sure which translation was the best, although I was trying to find one that would be the closest to the original Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic. The NASB Key Word Study Bible is good. I like it. And the Amplified, just because, it has a special place in my heart:):)
Have a blast praising Him for me and the siestas!
Love in HIM, lots of ((HUGS)), Blessings to you today,
katiegfromtennessee
Thank you to fellow Siesta, Linda for giving me my next memory verse.
The NLT version of Romans 12:9.
I especially like the last phrase..."hold tightly to what is good." I needed to hear that today and am HOLDING ON as tight as I can. The world tries to pull us away but God's hand is a better fit.
Blessings, Sandy
Wow...what an amazing concise explanation of the different translations....thanks
That was some great information Melissa ,thank you. I am praying for you Beth and all in Stockton. I have a very good friend who is going to attend. She is a sweet Christian lady whose hubby has some chronic health issues and I know she is ready for some refreshment in study of God's word and praise!
As a PS. what a treat to have Beth on Life Today all week. I think this ministry would be a good topic for a blog someday :}
Thank you for sharing this with us.
This is a subject that concerns me too, and I've spent a lot of time praying about.
At LPL Portland, I was so intrigued by some of the translations that Beth shared from The Message that I immediately ran out and bought the beautiful, leather "NIV/Message Parallel Study Bible" (even had my name put on it in gold...I'm all or nothing ;). I've always had reservations/concerns about this version, but I remember thinking, "If Beth Moore is okay with it, I guess I'm okay with it!"
I've tried, but I have not been able to bring myself to fully embrace "The Message" (I'm actually nervous about reading/memorizing from this version).
I've been asking the Lord if it's because He is asking me not to read from this version...or if I'm just afraid of something so different than what I'm used to? I don't know, I just want to be SO careful!
Just now, as I'm typing, a third scenario has come to mind. Maybe, just maybe, it really would be okay, BUT the Lord wants me to be educated and *know why* it's okay...instead of just embracing something because someone that I respect does (even if it is Beth Moore!! :).
Hmmmm?
If that's the case, I would say that this post is an answer to prayer.
Thank you!
Because I may possibly be a nerd, when I got my copy of The Message, I read the preface. I was so impressed by Eugene Peterson's comments: "The Message is a reading Bible. It is not intended to replace the excellent study Bibles that are available..." This gave me confidence of the translator's intent. I read The Message especially when my mind is having a hard time grasping a concept. Sometimes I just need the contemporary language for the scripture to sink in and soak in. Thanks, Melissa, for sharing your thoughts. I think The Message is an additional, wonderful tool for understanding our Father.
Thank you so much for this post. Somehow it doesn't seem to happen often that a serious Bible student recommends and uses the NASB as a first choice. It's my personal favorite, and is most "home" to me. It's the one that is underlined, written in, and the pages open where I want them to. It seems that most published studies use the NIV which is just different enough that I find myself juggling between the two (with a sprinkling of ESV and Message too:) which isn't a bad thing but my hands down fav has to be the NASB. Thanks, Melissa for sharing with all of us. I can't tell you how much this site, and LPM mean to my spiritual journey. You ladies rock!
Thank you so much, Melissa, for this beautiful and thoughtful blog. I would add that since Eugene Petersen seems to enhance, he is adding man's thoughts - don't want to be too critical of him - I just want as close to what God says as I can get - not taking away or adding anything!
I love this blog and your Bible Studies. To Katie on studying books of the bible - the Precept way is excellent as is the wonderful study of selected books you could get in Bible Study Fellowship.
How about ten tons of Jesus - I will be praying for Stockton - thank you Beth, Amanda, Melissa and all Living Proof for your sacrificial lives.
Thanks so much for the post. With so many versions it has been overwhelming for me. I finally settled on the NASB. I supplement with New Century Version and ESV.
Note to Beth:
I'm praying for you as you enter my state. May all my California sisters be blessed beyond measure.
Grandmamitz
Sara, very cool that you read the preface to the Message before reading it. I had supposed that he probably said something like that but wasn't certain. Thanks for adding that.
MMF
MELISSA, I've enjoyed reading about the different translations, I've had questions about them too. I read this rather hurriedly as I'm at work, but I look forward to reading it later in depth when I have more time over the weekend.
BETH, And I AM one of those STOCKTON GIRLS that will be at there at the Stockton Arena tonight!! I am sooo excited to see and hear you in person! Our women's Bible Study Group, Women of Light, have done several of your studies and they have been awesome! Looking forward to a wonderful evening and morning on Saturday filled with God's amazing Spirit and blessings... Our prayers are with you Beth, as you speak God's words to us! See you tonight!! Prayers & Blessings...Carole Good
Melissa, I agree with Katie 12:42, "I wish you would teach us how to go through a book of the Bible, how to break it down and study it."
I share the same sentiments. You must get into teaching us too. How bout some teaching video on this blog. :)
Thanks for all you do.
Grandmamitz
Wow. This is the second time in a week I'm having things rocked a bit. "Mediating" - ? as it relates to the NIV? I'm for sure going to have to look this up. Or "some pastors still use it" as refers to the NIV. Again. This is disturbing language to me. I'm going to have to research this now. I was under the impression the NIV was held in the same level of respect as was the NAS; and also thought more American pastors/bible teachers used the NIV than any other translation. As much as I might like to cross reference what I read with five or six other translations, or "dig in" and look at the original languages; I'm doing good to pull out my Parallel Bible and put that to use.
This past Sunday my pastor, at a leading non-denominational church - the largest in our area - said, in defense of the truth of the Word and it's authenticity (overall it was an excellent sermon) - but he said that there were "errors in transmission" that he made sound were basically universally understood as such (errors, that is) and the text needed to be handled with this understanding. He didn't elaborate.
Heck. It made me puzzled and frustrated. I need to know that what I read I believe.
And I do. But can you shed some light, Melissa, on this phrase "error in transmission"? Is this something everyone in "Christian academeia" understands and it's just us busy to our eyeballs in life, glad to sit still in a pew long enough to hear the Word taught on a Sunday morning - who are the clueless ones?
I'll forego my normal sign off name since my response has some "tone" in it (as one of my dear friends would call it. Smile).
For today, just call me
In A Pew and Not Wanting to be Clueless
Well Beth, I hope you had a safe flight to Stockton. I actually saw you in line this morning as I took my children to the airport to fly to sunny (and cooler) California as well. May I just say I noticed a gentleman giving you his cell phone to speak to someone else, I will assume his starstruck wife, and thought it was precious of you to accomodate him. We would have hugged you too, but got through security too late!
Thank you Melissa for such a wonderful explanation, I have struggled with the same things myself so I just figure the more the merrier! :)
And thanks for using plethora - I love that word!!! LOL
Hugs - Jennifer
This is so interesting, but more than that, its highly informational about a question I hadn't thought much of beforehand. Great stuff. Thanks so much - I learned so much from this little post! I hope there will be more Q's and A's of all varieties like this in the future. Although I own several versions, I don't believe I own a NASB. (um, if I do, I obviously don't use it regularly since I can't even recall) I seriously need to consider getting and using a Formal Equivalence version. Thank you again for this "nugget" of information!!
There is a really neat website:
preceptaustin.org
That has tons of Biblical information including translations and all things Greek and Hebrew. There is a tab on there called It's Greek to Me that has a chart of Biblical translations and how close they are to the original (it's quite a ways down on the page). I haven't begun to scratch the surface of this site, but very cool as a reference.
God bless,
Dawn Holmes
Daytona Beach, FL
I wouldn't use anything except the New American Bible--written by the people who had access to the original documents!
Hey Siestas,
remember when you were a kid and you knew of only one type of Bible? For me it was KJV. I didn't even know there was another translation unitl I met my husband. Now over twenty years later, there are tons of translations. For me, I had to get rid of some legalism while doing Bible study, and needed another trnaslation to help me understand the lessons. So, I have my primary Bible the KJV and my NIV that I study out of. The thing for me is, I love the KJV, but,I understnad what the NIV is saying much better.
But ssshhhhhh don't tell my mother, or the little ladies in her church. They'll eat me alive.
:0)
Becky
When I write a blog, I always include a link back to Bible Gateway for the scripture verse I referenced. By clicking the link, my readers can use any perferred translation to view the verse.
When I grow up I want to be as smart as Melissa! :)
Like it? You betcha!
This is the kind of stuff that I love to dig into.....I was raised in a particular Body of believers that taught "if you aren't carrying the KJV or the NAS, then don't bother showing up here".
Dude.
So, I have a particularly tender heart towards those that struggle with which version to use, as I've had this same struggle. But I have learned so much since my early days, and this blog just spoke VOLUMES to me!
I love what Karla wrote about how great it is we can share questions here and not be made to feel dumb or stupid, but know we are all here to love, support and teach. It would be great if you periodically answered questions from your vault for those of us who are too embarrassed or even ignorant to ask!
Thanks for sharing this answer!
Good to know from someone how has actually studied this!
Wow...You really ARE a Rock Star.
Cordially,
Jan
I love this response. Printed it out. Stuck it in my Bible.
I just think Melissa Moore Fitzpatrick is the bomb.
In fact, Beth, I just remembered you sharing in Believing God (I believe) about how your girls took their place in ministry as little youngsters when you would tell them that you would have to leave for the weekend and their job in the ministry was to feed the dog and do other things until you got back.
I can't even imagine the joy you feel having them both serving...and SERVING WELL...alongside you as young women!
What a blessing they are to us...as you have been.
Have a great weekend, friend,
Dori
P.S. I went to the RC Cola and MoonPie Festival in Bell Buckle, TN this past weekend. Freshest MoonPies I have ever tasted. Of course it was about 175 blazin' degrees so they were a little melty...but I ate one in the Moore's honor! :)
I have to say this is what I LOVE about this blog. We go from baby stuff and cake pictures to deep spiritual issues and back again. Just like good girl friends - we care about the deep and the surface because it's all part of this crazy life God gave us. My very closest friends are the ones who can bounce back between the two extremes and it all makes total sense. Thanks again for this blog!
Thank you Melissa,
This was very helpful to me as I was feeling a bit concerned about the Message too so this really helped a lot. I am NIV girl and I love it but I like to look at other translations also on verses especially if I am trying to get the meaning. YOu a smart cookie my dear and we just love you.
love
Tammy S.
Have you checked out biblenet.org? It is supposed to be a very accurate translation, using all the new info archeologists find for a more accurate translation.
Back in 2005, I was struggling with a stinkin' hotel room at The Opryland Hotel. It was our first time to stay there and we were so excited but the room we got had serious issues so we requested a room change. Unfortunately, the hotel was sold out so we had to stay put. I was whiny and mad UNTIL God gave me a timely Word from my parallel bible through the Message. Galations 3:11 smacked me up side the head. It says, "The person who lives in right relationship with God does it by embracing what God arranges for him." I decided right then and there that I needed to EMBRACE the accommodations that God had arranged personally for us so I did. This word immediately changed my attitude about the situation and spoke more specifically to me and my meltdown. I know God uses the Message to speak because it was clearly what I needed to hear. The NIV says Gal. 3:11 this way, "The righteous will live by faith." I love this post, Melissa, and I appreciate your insight. Praying for Cali! Dana
Interesting. I honestly did not realize that The Message was a translation, I believed it was a paraphrase. Good to know. Thank you for this post. :)
Thank you Melissa! I use the NIV, and also have been hesitant about using the Message. It just sounds so.... I don't know, unscriptural? Sorry! I really haven't looked into it, so thank you for giving us this great info!
Melissa,
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there some translations that are "word for word" and some that are "thought for thought."
Sometimes the "word for word" fail in the ability for the reader to comprehend the meaning. In a "thought for thought" translation different words might be used, but the meaning is easier to understand.
During our SSBS today, we found Psalm 19 so much more beautiful in The Message. We all agreed that it is much more picturesque and meant so much more to us when we were looking for the ways God speaks to us.
Thanks, Melissa, for your insights in this post.
I'd like to post anomously today because I don't want to be "looked down on" because of my very different view of translations. I am from a very strict denomination that believes that the KJV is the preserved copy of the Bible for the English speaking people. I don't have all the facts that have been given to me in this argument but it's something to do with the texts that it was translated from versus other "corrupted" texts. All that is too deep for me to really "get" but this argument does makes sense and that is that a bunch of different versions cause confusion. If someone is reading from one version and you have 3 or 4 different versions that listeners are reading from....you have some degree of confusion.
I certainly don't claim to know more than those of you who use other versions. I just believe that because some of the versions differ SO greatly in meaning in some verses....some being entirely left out....that they surely can't all be equal.
I do constantly use Bible dictionaries, commentaries and concordances to help me to understand the KJV. It is a beautiful language and I am satisfied with it for myself. I don't distance myself from others that believe all Bibles are equal though as maybe you think I might. I'm really a nice person. :) Just thought that I would post a straight line, hard nose point of view....and hope to not be stoned and thrown over the wall. ha
Having said all that, I do want you to know that I love Beth's teaching so very much! I have learned a lot from just the one Bible study I have gone through with her so far. Looking forward to many more!
God bless all of you!
Melissa,
Your brain is awesome. Thanks for sharing it. :)
I have to admit that I, too, was a little nervous when I saw the suggested translation for Psalm 119 was, "The Message".
Time for a pride-check, because I ran across this verse:
"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."
Isaiah 55:11 KJV
I am open to all translations but have always had my gaurd up with The Message. I still do- but after reading that verse in Isaiah and reading this post, I do realize that the word of God will accomplish what he needs, and will not return to him void or empty. Somebody, somewhere is going to get what they need, how they need it. And that is a wonderful thing to sit and think upon.
Although I will stick to using PRAYER for understanding, a commentary, concordance and dictionary with my translation- I just wanted to let you all know I appreciate the opportunity through your blog to see things from a different light!!! :)
Thanks for doing it with grace and wisdom!
Thank you so much Melissa for this explanation. You see, I feel the same way as Katie ~ I'd love to understand how to "read" the bible. I use an NIV that my brother gave to me when he was trying to lead me to the Lord. I wouldn't trade that bible for anything. But, as I do my bible studies, I find myself looking up other versus with other bible versions. I sure do enjoy being able to get the different interpretations.
But the problem seems to be that I only understand the verse because of the bible study. I'm so intimidated (?) to read my bible because I end up reading it like a book and can't hardly remember what I read the next day. I've been trying to take it in smaller bites and meditate on it throughout the day. Is that how you do it?
Like the rest of us, I'm so happy to have you here to teach us. What wonderful role models you all are to this new Christian.
I grew up on the KJV and loved it and still have scripture memorized from that version. But...I study now from the NIV and love it. I love to read the Message at night before I go to bed just as good reading. I like it also to help understand difficult to interpret passages of scripture. My children love the Message version as it is easy for them to understand. They memorize scripture fromt KJV and NIV. I believe they are all useful for teaching and instruction in some respect.
Thank you for answering this question as many of us needed an answer exactly as you gave it Melissa. I am seeing in some of your most recent post, that siestaville will be a great benefactor from your education and your generosity and willingness to share it with us.
Praying Jesus all over you this weekend Beth!! You go girl...they need a fresh Word from the Living God....you give it to them.
Royana
Jaycee,
Yes, that is one of the arguments that some people make against "word for word" translations- their point is that the translator cannot be bound by having to translate word for word especially in the cases of Hebrew/Greek idiom because a word for word translation would not produce the correct original meaning. In some cases, it would not produce any meaning at all in English. Anyone who has taken Spanish would understand that argument... it is just a basic issue in the translation process. Thanks for you insight and thank you for writing.
Love,
Melissa
I had to laugh when I once came across a NT verse in the Message translation that said something about how "all the women brought casseroles..." Haha. Casseroles.
But excellent question, as I have often felt uneasy regarding The Message as "true" scripture, and there are certainly those out there who are very critical of it and thus scared me away for awhile. Thank you for answering this Melissa and giving some perspective on translation.
Anonymous,
Thank you for writing. And you will not be looked down upon for using the KJV here. And you are right, the KJV is based on a different textual base, the Textus Receptus. The other modern versions use the critical edition of Greek manuscripts which are actually older manuscripts. There are a number of books you could read that would inform you about the differences between the KJV and most modern versions. One fairly boring but good book is called "A General Introduction to the Bible: From Ancient Tablets to Modern Translations" by David Ewert. Thank you for writing and know that you don't have to comment anonymously.
Love,
Melissa
Man. That was a like a peanut-butter M&M, Melissa -- tiny package, bright coating, packed with substance.
Personally, I love The Message because I grew up so deep in the church, the Bible has a tendency to feel stale to me. The Message makes it feel fresh and come alive. It makes me sit up and actually READ and not anticipate the next word. It's not great for study (as Eugene Peterson has freely acknowledged), but it's great for the sheer love of the Bible.
(Peterson actually wrote a book about that -- "Eat this Book.")
You put into words how I feel when someone tries to tell me it is KJV or nothing. Personally NASB has been my favorite since about 1980. It is my Study Bible, and the one that has the most writing in it, and notes and such..
Thank you for your imput!! When I get told the King James thing, my arguement is that it also is just a translation.. but of course, the other person is right, because it is the King James, ya' know.. I just let it go,there is nothing to changing the othrs mind, so they have their way and the rest of us our view!
love you guys!
Delilah Berryville AR
Very interesting,, Melissa. I didn't really know the differences between translations. I like The Message cause it seems so simple. I have a study Bible that is NKJV. Once in a while I will use an NIV. That's the translation my youngest daughter has.
Beth, I truly regret that I will not be able to make it to Stockton this time. I am praying for you. Make an impact!
Kels
Thanks for lots of food for thought, Melissa. Appreciate your efforts to clarify things for us~
Warm in Alaska.
I didn't read through all of the comments and I hope no one asked this already.
What do you say to those who would argue that the KJV is the ONLY one that is acceptable? I seem to run into that argument a lot. While I love the poetic sound of the KJV, I usually have to go to the NIV or another more modern translation to grasp the meaning of certain phrases.
Oh, and thank your for clearing up the Message question for me too! I had shied away from it in the past!
Melissa,
I should have known that I would not be ostracized HERE....of all places....for using the KJV only.
Thank you for your very sweet reply. I am humbled.
And I am in awe of the depth of your genius mind! You remind me of my children who boggle my mind when we talk on "deep" things!
Again....thanks for your very kind response!
For today, I still remain anonomous. :) But only to finish what I started....not because I feel anymore that I would be "looked down on".
God bless you!
very good explanation, I love comparing translations . it took a while to get use to the Message but I love it. As you said though I dont use it for everything it is not my go to scripture. I still use my old New american Standard that I got for my 21st birthday....Im 51 now...I cant seem to let it go. It has scribles in it from my kids, chewed corners from past puppies and notes from today and many yesterdays
Melissa - Thanks so much for enlightening us. It was so helpful!
My family started going to church when I was about 6 years old. The Pastor used the Living Bible - the totally paraphrased one. When I was about 13, I went to a church who used only the King James Version. Talk about version-shock! :o) But you know what? I loved them both. The Living Bible was easy on my child-brain and I learned to love God's Word. The KJV sounded so scholarly yet poetic and I actually learned to study the Bible. Today my absolute favorite is the Amplified. The more words, the better! But I do love NIV, NLT, ESV, and the Message.
I must admit I worry at times that the translation is not doing God's Word justice. I would love to hear God Himself say it to me - in English, of course! Since this is not happening very often ;o), I like to grab an armful of translations and compare away!
Thanks again for the post! Makes me want to go read a stack of Bibles.
Contemporary bible to go along with contemporary music.
Now THIS is the stuff I absolutely love to learn about. I just got back from a youth conference where we discussed translations and I realized I didn't know much about anything when it comes to translations. So, thank you so much.
For those who have commented about it, at the youth conference I was at, our morning sermons were about how to effectively study the Bible. I realized when they mentioned what they were going to talk about that in my 22 years of life, I haven't even been taught how to study the Bible. It was an eye-opening few days for me, but would LOVE for us to have some posts on this blog from Miss Beth, Melissa and Amanda on how to effectively read the Bible. I think it would be great for all of us siestas!
~Sarah
THanks for the post. I actually like reading the introductions of different translations so I can get a better grasp of the people who worked on it. God is so awesome to gift so many people so that I can read His Word in my own language. Praise Him!!!
To the Siesta who wanted to be able to "study" the Bible better. I recommend the Rick Warren's Bible Study Methods book. It is filled with 12 different types of ways to study the Bible and gives great examples of each, along with the study 'forms' for you to use as well. It is WONDERFUL.
Blessings to all,
Pat from Kansas
This comment has been removed by the author.
To all,
There are definitely blessings and cursings to living in a country where we have such a plethora of translations- sometimes it can be confusing but on the other hand it gives us readers an idea of the exegetical questions the various translators are asking.
To Delilah,
The KJV argument is a little more complicated because it doesn't just entail a different theory about translation but the actual textual base. If you are interested in reading about it, definitely check out the Fee and Strauss book that I mentioned.
I love you all!
Melissa
Your the girl Melissa Fitzpatrick! I have never fretted over this but I have always wondered about it and your answer to help us with it was clear and concise. Thankful for your deep and thick thinking. You help all of us go to the next level with God and the things of God! Thanks for always thinking about us and helping us as we walk with our beautiful God! We all need a "plethora" of Christian friends just like versions of the Word!
Theresa
Beth: I not only like it, I LOVE IT! Thank you for posting Beth, and thank you to Melissa for writing such a thorough reply.
I absolutely LOVE my Bibles. I fret when one of the pages gets bent or folded over. I don't leave them lying in my car, or in the sun - I'm just a little weird that way... :)
I am blessed to have every translation you mentioned as well as a couple of parallel texts, and an antique one too! A treasure is my paternal granny's Bible with notes, napkins, letters, things written on envelopes, etc. stuffed all inside. She had poured over the Psalms so much you can barely see the pages...priceless to me.
I love to read back and forth between texts, and there is nothing more precious that to simply sit and READ the Message translation for the pure joy of the way it flows. If it were music, it would be "legato" and not "staccato." It is smooth reading.
But as Melissa said so eloquently, if I'm "a studying up a storm," it's my NASB, ESV, KJV, or NKJV that I'm gathering up - along with my Strong's and Bible dictionaries.
Now I am unable to read the Biblical languages as our Melissa can, but I love to search a word out and study it through and through. Nothing better than a good word study!
Melissa - my favorite part of your post is when you acknowledged the fact that God even speaks to us today is humbling in itself! Amen and Amen.
Beth - prayed and praying for you in Stockton. Prayed for a good night's sleep on Friday night - and clarity of mind and thought!
Much Love,
GJ "Georgia Jan"
Great thoughts, Melissa! Can you sum up in a sentence or paragraph the difference between Formal Equivalence, Mediating, and Functional Equivalence some time?
Melissa,
I just marvel at your knowledge! Thank you so much for your insights! I enjoy using different translations when I am studying a passage, and often use the Message when I'm struggling to understand it and need it put in simpler terms for this blonde! :)
Blessings
Michelle
Thank-you, that was important information for all of us. I hope you'll continue to share these types of questions and responses with the whole siesta community.
p.s. my word verification is "imentor"....which is what I have just started, with this study as our jumping off place. Cool!
Melana
Thanks Melissa and all the gang at Living Proof. This very post is one of the reasons, (right there at the top), I enjoy this blog so much. Your honest and highly informed response is so right-on, positive AND encouraging. I have heard many arguements, (good and bad), that take us away from the very reason why we read God's word in the first place. He and His Word is TRUE and we desperately need it these days, no matter what the translation/paraphrase we look at. Thanks once again for your deligence!
I love looking at various translations, but an added blessing is to have a son who studies the original languages. Because he is doing this study with me, I had him translate some of the verses we have to look up. We found a real gym in Psalm 139:17, which seems to convey a dual meaning that not only are His thoughts precious, but WE are precious in His thoughts - AMAZING! Me? Amazing! and humbling. This truly added a little clorox to my thought closet garments.
Thank you Melissa, loved this post!I know I will refer back to the info in it often. Thanks again for taking God's word so seriously and using the gifts he blessed you with!
Sistah in Missourah
Can I confess? Our 1st grade son had read his 400-page, story-based Bible - what a great thing for a child to outgrow a translation so soon. After hours in the Lifeway store, I found what is called an NIV-R. It's an NIV for what is educationally called Emergent Readers (1st thru maybe 4th grade). They simplified it in ways to make reading AND following easy. For example, there are some bodies of water that have several different names, but they have chosen one, typically the most primary name, to always refer to that particular body of water. Some of the passages have been simplified. The meaning is still there, but it's just grammatically broken down. And I love that translation. I've been a little embarassed to admit it. Until now. Thanks for letting me come out into the light with that one.
Peace,
Kim Feth
Apex, NC
Dear Melissa,
Awesome! Thanks for explaining it so well.
I'm grateful that we live in a country (and age) where we have access to so many translations at our fingertips, and I use a number of them - including The Message - to understand Scripture as best as my human mind can comprehend. I love using The Message - and appreciate it even more after your explanation.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this blog. I love, love, love the theological discussions (as well as the Moon Pie ones). :)
Thank you for posting this!! I've had this same question and it was answered SO clearly!! This blog is a tremendous blessing to me! Thank you!
Thanks for the information. I wa not sure If the Message was trustworth or not.
Thank you so much for this post. I cannot tell you how many times I've questioned translations. For me, this is a very special subject because my MIL is deaf-blind and I have interpreted for her. I pray the entire time I'm interpreting a sermon for her that my "words" be ones inspired by the Holy Spirit, the ones the Lord would have me use. Its gotten to the point that I keep two different translations with me and my computer next to me while I work on Bible studies. I can be a bit obsessive, but I love to know the true word of God. I find most of the time, the NKJV works best for me.
Dear Melissa.
I appreciate your letter and your incredible determination to search out scripture as you do. I am a KJV only. Ask your mom! Though I have softened my tone. I know that a searching soul could find God in any one of those versions you listed. But, I think wanting or being a strong student of the Word, it is important to know what is exactly scripted by using the Greek and/or Hebrew so to know what the verse is saying.
I've read a book called "Which Version is the Bible" by Floyd Jones. Floyd has a PH.D as well as a TH.D and an humble man. Get this, before becoming a Christian he was a Paleontologist, Geophysicist, District Geophysicist and other positions then resigned and in 1974 and pursed biblical studies. He began to teach the Bible on Tuesday's and Thursday nights. He gave all his teaching tapes away free and in all those years supported his wife and two girls with teaching and never asked for a dime for his tapes. Obviously people were lead to support him. He said, "freely I've received, freely I give" and never was in want for money to provide for his family and told his wife the day he did not have the money to provide he would work a secular job. He never had too. That was amazing to me.
Here is something Floyd wrote in the book:
Certain scholars have altered the crucial doctrine of "preservation" to that of "restoration" - and most text critics do not believe that such restoration is even any longer possible. Moreover the fall out from this places another of the most basic doctrines under attack, the doctrine of the divine inspiration of the text. Consequently, in so doing, they have destroyed the faith of many such that no longer are certain that they do have God's Word in their hands. The teacher has perpetuated that which happened to him years before when he was the student. The evil cycle is now complete. We have turned full circle to a different pope.
Again, we are being asked to believe in the inspiration of Scripture without believing in the preservation of the sacred Writ. We are being taught at nearly all the conservative fundamental seminaries that God gave an inspired text but could not (or did not) quite protect or preserve it. As a result, part was lost somewhere along the way and text critics are supposedly engaged in the arduous process of restoring to the word the original readings.
...the only question the inquiring reader need ask himself is: "Is it reasonable that God gave man His pure infallible Word and then allowed it to become so corrupted over time that He (we) was left to call and rely upon unregenerate men to restore it? One can but wonder how a believing Christian scholar, pastor, or layman could allow himself to become so deceived as to fall into the snare of considering only the "originals" to be trustworthy. Most assuredly, their faith did not begin there. God "lost" portions of His Word? Was not that rather awkward of Him?
"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever" Isaiah 40:8"
(Which Version is the Bible, Floyd Jones, chapter 1, pge.19-20)
Colossians 1:14
Regarding the son, Jesus, from verse 13, we read:
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(KJ)
In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. (NAS, NIV, RSV)
Comment: "Through his blood" is deleted - a major difference! Beloved, if your "Bible" does not contain these three words, someone has tampered with it such that is no long the Word of God. If it is wrong here how can you be certain that many other omissions do not exist?
(Which Version is the Bible, Floyd Jones, chapter 2, pg. 21)
food for thought!
Allison
Wow Melissa,
It can be said with confidence you are your mother's child heehee you did a great job explaining the differences and a great answer. I too am a die hard NIV and have used other text at different time but I always come back to NIV.
Praying for Stockton for God's Word to bless her what ever the translation
Blessings
Lori
P.s Wish I were in California to see you Beth
I wrote the wrong name Praying for Searching with an Open heart for her to hear God's word no matter the Translation
Great job, Melissa! You explained that beautifully!
Gene Peterson was my in-laws pastor at Christ Our King Presbyterian Church in Bel Air, MD during the 80's.
He was amazing to hear, but sometimes my father in law would say he just went over his head!
I'm sure you know that since he is an expert in Greek and Hebrew, he started out I believe with the book of Galations...translating it from Greek to English in a way that his Bible Study group could apply it to their lives.
He made Galations come alive to people living in a town outside of Baltimore, MD so they could apply to their own lives.
He took some much needed sabbaticals during his time there to go to Montana and write and from what I remember, people wanted more and more of his "modern application" of the true Greek in other books of the NT.
He has been unfairly accused in certain areas of the U.S. and certain groups of changing God's word, etc. But you know how that goes.
He's a wonderful, spirit filled believer actually raised in a charismatic faith and he attended school with another excellent theologian that you spoke of - Gordon Fee.
I'm sure you already knew about Eugene Peterson...but just in case someone reads this that may be uncomfortable reading The Message at all - This helps in identifying him as totally competent and and someone who loves the scriptures and a desire for others to love them and understand them as well.
Love and blessings,
Teri
I've been blessed in California at the Living Proof Live. It blessed my socks off!
God is so gorgeous! Thanks so much for reminding me.
Karen
Thank you so much to the siesta who wrote this question & Melissa. I had wondered about the Message & was glad that you posted a response.
I really like Katie's suggestion about learning how to study a book of the Bible. I would really love it if either you, your sister, your mom or all of you would do a post(s) about this.
Thank you !!)
It seems that everyone from church went to see you in Stockton, but me! So sad to miss you, but I hope you'll be back!
Just last night I was reading about the history of the different translations. It was just a brief description and made me hungry for more. I am home from church with a sick child and what a delight to get on and read your post, Melissa. I grew up on KJV, in college was introduced to NIV and NASB which continue to be my faves, and have lately been using Biblegateway to compare to others. I have hesitated to buy other translations because, well, just how many bibles does one need? I think now I may have to go get THe Message!
Cassie
Atlanta
P.S. I am with the other ladies who would love to be shown how to go through and study a book of the bible.
Wow thanks! I love the Message it has been a blessing in my life! Glad to know the scoop on it! It is so refreshing! Someone gave me a NCV bible a few years ago and I have enjoyed that too... not sure what category that one falls in I'll have to go read the introduction! : )
My main study bible is the NIV study bible... it is literally falling apart (I am not meaning that to sound pious) but my question is I really need to get a new one but it is so hard because I ADORE all the notes on the edges, dates written in it, underlining etc... it just feels like home when you hold it! My question is I have heard you should get a new bible every 5 years? What do you all think? Know that may be a silly question!
Thank you for making us think! I love learning all these mini theology blog lessons! Looking forward to more! : )
God Bless- Emmy
Melissa,
Thank you for your insight into the subject. You always bring clarity to whatever you address.
I am Greek and, although I study out of the original, I also have 3 different modern Greek translations. Even the original has simpler translations.
To me, it's like on the day of Pentecost when people heard the message in their native languages. Today, there are people who can hear and understand God better through a certain translation. I know people who came to Christ through the Living Bible. I lived in Hawaii for 25 years and have a New Tastament that's translated into pidgin. It speaks to some people way better than KJV. God's Word is alive!
I use the NAS, also, because it is closest to the original, but appreciate the language of other translations as well.
It's so sad that there is so much legalism in some churches about the KJV. When my daughter was 7 she lost a SS class memorization contest because she didn't memorize from KJV. It crushed her young spirit.
Nitsa
Nitsa, loved seeing your comment. YOU brought clarity . Much Love to you,
Melissa
Nitsa - I lived in Hawaii as a teenager and loved it so much. It has been a long time since I heard "pidgin." That was so good...
Blessings -
Georgia Jan
Reading this post and the comments, I am reminded of a favorite quote, written in 1932, by the wonderful missionary, Amy Carmichael.
'The Bible is richer than any single version can fully show'
Amen to that.
Jo
Top 12 Living Proof Live Stockton California Takeaways - June 26-27, 2009
1.There is something After This and it turns out well.
2.Number One way to prepare your self is to understand who God is and what He does. How well we do this determines how we live…..and grow.
3.Our culture is mass producing narcissists as well as narcissist churches.
4.If you haven’t learned anything new in 10 years you’re not studying.
5.If you don’t love to study, you’re not a teacher.
6.Vision looks out the window not in the mirror.
7.Every No you get points you to your greater Yes.
8.No matter how old we are, there is something in us that still feels young.
9.Because our culture in general is being sexually attacked and abused by itself, young people today are behaving like actual victims of sexual abuse did 25 years ago – insecure and powerless with no boundaries.
10.It’s never too late – Purity is not for God’s sake, it’s for ours. Forget innocence, and go for integrity. Start now.
11.Isolation creates weirdness.
12.God is a hopeful Romantic.
So proud of my city! Thanks for blessing us. It was tons of fun and tons of challenge.
Beth, It was my complete joy to meet you and pray with you on Saturday before LPL Stockton (as city coordinator). The one thing I wished I had told you is that we are Grammys at the same time....My grandson, Seth was born 2/5/06 and I believe your Jackson was close to that, and our little Audrey was born on 3/8/09, and your little Annabelle is close again. It was with great joy that I heard you pray for my family to the 5-6th generations, because you see, these little people were hard to come by for our oldest daughter and her husband. Our oldest son and his wife are experiencing the heartbreak of infertility. Our youngest son is unsure as to their possibilities as well, and our youngest daughter is not married yet. But I felt God's affirmation of grandchildren to me through your prayer and I am so reassured to continue to pray for open wombs in His timing. Thank you for your sacrifice of blessing to us in Stockton, we had a BLAST!!!
Stockton was awesome!!!! I am chewing back through the 7 points of moving from Bridezilla to the Bride of Christ. I want to sow this word and not just eat the seed!
The part that keeps touching me the most if the permission I gave myself, (funny word) to be romantic!! Being a single mom in her 50's, I have given up on earthly romance...and have had good practice at squelching any of those romantic feelings, longings. But just as you said, Dear Beth, my soul is young!!!! And I DO have eternity in my heart.
And I have the GRAND romance with Jesus. The part about Jesus eyes and the intensity, seeing through my soul, touched me.
I came home and gave myself the persmission to enjoy a good romance story (movie) from time to time...and to see how it reflects Jesus. :) So I watched Last of the Mohiccans last night! :) a fav....and just enjoyed that my Jesus will find me, he will not let me go, and will fight all obstacles and foes and even die in my place!!!
Thank you Beth, for allowing God to use you again....and to hear all these ladies singing Victory in Jesus...I dialed my 75 year old momma, at home, who could not come, and let her listen to us all singing from my cell phone...for the whole song. She said her and papa sang too....the whole song! Thank you....
Oh, my momma aske, if I got a chance to talk to Beth, (lol) would I ask her to come to Sacramento some time, so she could come? :)
Sorry this is so long....
Thanks for this post, Melissa. I join others in appreciating instruction on this topic.
Last year, when I began doing Beth Moore Bible studies, I committed to daily Bible reading - something I had never done. Since I had never read the Bible straight through, I decided to do that and to use a contemporary translation since some passages were so familiar to me in the KJV I could practically recite them. I began with the NLT and transitioned to the ESV study Bible when I got to the prophets and needed the extra study notes.
What amazed me was not just the way in which a contemporary translation spoke to me personally, but also the way in which it changed my approach to children's ministry. I began putting together lessons for my second and third grade SS class on parts of the Bible that I had never really thought of teaching to children. We've just finished a twelve lesson unit on Paul's letters and, in retrospect, I don't think I would have attempted anything like that if reading a contemporary translation hadn't made me see how certain teaching could be made relevant to kids.
I'm sorry to write such a long comment and hope I haven't been tedious, but this experience has taught me not to take any translation for granted.
P.S. The use of parallel translations for study has been around almost as long as there have been modern translations. We know, for example, that Sir Philip Sidney's sister consulted at least three English translations for her poetic paraphrase of the Psalms and that was late 1500s. Just in case anyone cares. ;-)
I agree with Katie's comment about reading a book of the bible and how to break it down and study it.
I would be interested in that too.
thanks for your inspiration.
Jackie
Is there some place I can leave a prayer request? I'd love to have prayer for my little girl. Thanks.
Thanks so much for posting this. I have had many reservations about using The Message ever since it came out. But, I've never really studied up on it. Thanks so much for sharing your amazing knowledge about all this. I will definitly be looking at that book!
Thank you for sharing that with us. I know many of us wondered just a bit about the validity of The Message translation.
also worth a read is Peterson's book entitled "Eat This Book"....it really made me get what this translation is all about...
This question has been raised in my SS class and Bible Studies. I will share your statement with everyone. This blog is a wonderful resource in our quest to know more about our God and Savior.
Thank you so much!!!
This post was very helpful to me. I so enjoyed reading Eugene Peterson's, Eat This Book, and began checking The Message Bible for help in understanding some passages of Scripture. I think the book of Romans in The Message is awesome! My main text is NIV, and I like NASB, too, but I'm discovering a love for HCSB as well!
Two of you sent several harsh comments that I would like to have addressed but my Mom still holds veto power around here and she is determined that the blog is not going to become a platform for debate. Keep in mind that I was not seeking to do a detailed “study” or “provide support” or even “promote” the Message but to explain why we feel confident including it occasionally at LPM. As I explained, The Message is not a “paraphrase” in the technical sense. Technically, a paraphrase is a translation that has been re-worded from an existing language, like The Living Bible. The Message is based on the original languages (Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic) not an existing English translation. I reiterated numerous times that we do not recommend the Message for a primary study translation but would not pass it off as merely “devotional” material.
Cordially,
MMF
Melissa-
Do you have any thoughts on the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures? I think it was translated by the Jehovah Witnesses. I only ask because there are two nice ladies who are Jehovah Witnesses who have visited me twice and pointed out today how many versions don't use the word Jehovah for God. They didn't tell me the other versions were "wrong" and I'm not rushing out to turn in the NIV that my mother gave me so many years ago....I'm just wondering if you've ever studied from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures and if you have found it to be accurated, etc. Thanks
Chrystal
YEOW! I love it. Thanks for the explination. I do love the Message but keep going back to the NKJV for my reading. I love it that you cover all the bases for Siestas.xoxoxoxox
Thank you for this information. I often facilitate Bible studies at our church and sometime the class bogs down over this issue. This info is a big help!
This also enables my Bible-purchasing addiction. Ha!
Anonymous,
The New World Translation is suspect, reflecting the doctrinal biases of the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is extremely problematic.
MMF
I don't know that it is appropriate to post this here, but I trust that it will not be published if it's not.
In response to Chrystal's question regarding the "New World Translation", the following quote was found at www.4witness.org. They have some great information and answers to questions for people thinking about becoming a Jehovah's Witness...
"The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is known as a religion that denies the Deity of Jesus Christ. To this end, when they produced their own translation of the Bible (The New World Translation), they went to great lengths to make it appear that the Scriptures do not support the idea that Jesus Christ is God (Jehovah). In an attempt to shift the emphasis off of Jesus Christ as God, they inserted the derivation “Jehovah” (an adaptation from the original Hebrew “YHWH” for God’s Name) in place of theos (God) and Kurios (Lord) in multiple verses in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament). Thus, they created a distinction between Jehovah God and Jesus Christ that is not warranted in the text. In addition to inserting God’s Name where it is not supported by the text, they have also mistranslated many verses that support the Deity of Jesus Christ to justify their own anti-Trinitarian dogma."
Perhaps the most troubling mistranslation in the NWT is contained in John 1:1:
The Greek words “kai theos en ho logos” are mistranslated as “the Word was a god,” instead of “the Word was God.” This is a distortion of the text as the word “a” is not in the Greek, but was added by the New World Translators to make the Word (Jesus) “a” second “god” who is separate from God the Father.
Melissa and Amanda May-
Thanks for your responses. While I don't have any intention of becoming a Jehovah Witness I did wonder what some of the differences were in that text in comparison to the other more popular translations of the bible. When I looked it up on bible gateway I noticed it wasn't there...........so I thought it might be suspect. When I mentioned to them (in my sweetest voice) that Beth Moore's daughter did not think the Message was a paraphrase I did think I saw them miss a breath :) hee hee
Seriously, thanks for the feedback. I love your knowledge in this area.
Chrystal
To all,
I feel like I need to reiterate that the Message is not a "paraphrase" in the technical linguistic sense because it was translated from the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. The problem is that many people generally assume that a "free sounding" translation is a "paraphrase" so it makes things complicated. I meant that The Message was not a paraphrase in the technical sense like the Living Bible (the author of the Living Bible used the American Standard Version) and reworded and simplified it (see Fee and Stuart, How to Choose a Translation for all its Worth, 32)
MMF
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